More money and meeting with 3 elders

by Foolednomore in

jw
friends

so, we had this meeting with 3 elders ( larry, moe and curly) my uncle who is the lawyer sat in the room and stayed quiet, and fact for 40 minutes we let them talk.

we would just sit there.

they went into along winded monolog about how the world is in bad shape and getting worst.

Sea Breeze

Excellent story.... thanks for sharing.

LHG: I think it was smart to ask them questions about past teachings of the religion. Most Witnesses are ignorant about past teachings or scandals. Many are even ignorant about current teachings!

I agree Long Hair Gal. I once met with an Elder and MS at a nearby KH a few years after leaving to ask them a few questions. When I asked why Jesus wasn't allowed to be their Mediator, the young MS quipped, "He is our Mediator"! I turned my head to the Elder and waited a second, then said, "Do you want to tell him or do you want me to"? The elder was forced to tell the MS that Jesus was not his Mediator. The MS looked back at me with a combination of shock and hatred. I was there with my wife and 4 and 5 yr. old boys, so they were forced to keep things civilized.

Maybe the same thing will happen to their KH that happened to the former KH below. I just love happy endings.

May be an image of tree

28

JW Obession with the trinity

by Riley in

so a few years i watched a lecture series by a man named dr. micheal heiser called the two powers in heaven, jesus in the old testament.

funny thing was it wasn't even very evangelical in nature, so i turned off my religious binders and just watched it like a regular person.

it turns out that the new testament is a hinge point in the bible.

Sea Breeze

Dr. Micheal Heiser is described as a gnostic heretic here.

12

I need your help to get out

by ElMartin in

i'm using google translate, my native language is spanish .

hola, esta es mi primera publicación en este sitio.

tengo 22 años, me dediqué a jehová y lo que creo que fue la organización de él a los 18 años.. ai am currently inactive in spiritual activities, which led me to wonder and question if the watchtower has the truth.

Sea Breeze

Hi El Martin,

My advice is that if you meet with an elder you keep it to only one topic....like the UN for instance. I would simply present them with the original documents and ask what they personally think about it.

Keep in mind that a half million JW's accepted the resolution that pointedly stated that members of the United Nations are idolaters and that they are no part of it:

the United Nations, with international headquarters at New York city. This international organization stands for world sovereignty by political men. For years men without faith in God’s kingdom have endeavored to get all people to worship this international image of human political sovereignty as the best hope for earthly peace and security, in fact, the last hope for humanity. To date 111 nations have given worship to this political image by becoming members of it. However, we, as witnesses of the Sovereign God Jehovah, will continue refusing to engage in such idolatrous worship

Since you have already made up your mind about leaving, this is basically for your mother. So, there is no need to get into an extended conversation with them. Just say, Oh, OK, and move on. You can tell your mom that they pretty much minimized your concern.... and that will be the end of it.

Good luck on your next steps after leaving. Will be praying for your success.

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Sea Breeze

DJW,

"I chose to believe in reality - not superstition".

You are welcome to believe anything you want.... including things that are demonstratable false. But, if you believe that you (including your reasoning) are a product of copying mistakes (falsities), how could you possibly trust any of your reasoning as being true? How do you know that your reasoning isn't just another mistake on the road to entropy?

I think a lot of folks are opposed to science that disproves evolution based upon principle, not the evidence. They then segregate their thinking according to their a priori commitment to atheism. I think that is what you are doing.

There have been tens of thousand of reviews of Dr. Sanfords peer reviewed research on genetic entropy. Where is the academic challenge of this peer-reviewed paper? None... just pot shots from poorly informed and partisan people. By contrast, Dr. Sanford delivered his research out in the open, to the National Institutes of Health. He laid it all on the line. That is what truth does.... it likes the light and doesn't mind the scrutiny.

The evidence of genetic entropy is overwhelming. Viruses tend toward randomness and less lethality due to copying mistakes in a very short period of time. "Several current COVID-19 treatments now employ pharmaceuticals that accelerate RNA mutation rates, which is essentially accelerated genetic entropy".

So, why is genetic entropy acknowledged and used when it suits a naturalists' purpose but rejected when if rubs their naturalist world-view the wrong way? Isn't this another example of hypocrisy?

Regarding your reference to Laurence Krauss, I recommend:

A [Young Earth] Creationist Interviews Lawrence Krauss

Also:

Lawrence Krauss, accused of sexual misconduct, received $250K from Jeffrey Epstein

"their relationship dates to at least 2002... "when he reportedly flew...on Epstein’s private jet".

Krauss is quoted in a 2015 Reuters article saying Epstein's “interest is in interesting people and interesting ideas,” adding that he had no idea of the accusations.

However, in a 2011 article from the Daily Beast, Krauss is quoted defending Epstein, attesting that none of the "beautiful women and young women" he's seen surround him were underage.

How can we trust a man who says that he's not aware of accusations against a monster like Jeffery Epstein, yet earlier was defending him when he said, none of the "beautiful women and young women" he's seen surround him were underage.

Krauss also said:

"I don't feel tarnished in any way by my relationship with Jeffrey; I feel raised by it," he said.

I would ask Krauss a similar question I earlier asked you, If your reasoning is based on copying mistakes & randomness, how could you possibly know if your reasoning isn't just another random mistake?

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Sea Breeze

If a radio transmission is discovered to contain coded DNA information then those who made the discovery know that the transmission was made by means of technology, and thus also ultimately by an intelligence, since the unintelligent part of nature never makes such. But finding coded information in DNA in biological beings is a different matter. That is because we know that biological beings replicate

Your reasoning is not based upon the replication, but based on the replication mistakes. Let's make that clear.

999,999 copying mistakes that are harmful to possibly 1 that may be beneficial or neutral. You need coded words to make changes. This has been shown by geneticists to be impossible. Stop repeating otherwise. Alternatively, you could write a peer reviewed paper that refutes Dr. Sanford; or just get over it. Genetic copying mistakes is a dead end in explaining anything except destruction.

And yet, if naturalists receive even a short coded message from outer space, they will be announcing that they found evidence of an intelligent source!

Not interested in that kind of hypocritical thought restriction.

6

Why Did the Apostles Preach the Ministry of Reconciliation Instead of Mt. 24: 14 ...Like JW's Do?

by Sea Breeze in

and all things are of god, who hath reconciled us to himself by jesus christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 to wit, that god was in christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

- 2 cor.

5: 18. then fourteen years after i went up again to jerusalem with barnabas, and took titus with me also.

Sea Breeze

I went to the KH since infancy and never heard about how to be reconciled to God. How could JW's miss this central message?

2 Corinthians 5:18

Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

2 Corinthians 5:19

namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Colossians 1:20

and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

Romans 11:15

For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

Luke 12:58

For while you are going with your opponent to appear before the magistrate, on your way there make an effort to settle with him, so that he may not drag you before the judge, and the judge turn you over to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison.

Ephesians 2:16

and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

2 Corinthians 5:20

Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Matthew 5:25

Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison.

Colossians 1:22

yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—

Romans 5:11

And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Romans 5:10

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Hebrews 2:17

Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Romans 5:1

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Q: Why don't JW's teach reconciliation and peace with God through the finished work of Christ? Having peace with God is amazing. Knowing that you are not in any kind of trouble with God is a huge relief!

What a heavy price JW's pay just so they can take credit for their own salvation.

6

Why Did the Apostles Preach the Ministry of Reconciliation Instead of Mt. 24: 14 ...Like JW's Do?

by Sea Breeze in

and all things are of god, who hath reconciled us to himself by jesus christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 to wit, that god was in christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

- 2 cor.

5: 18. then fourteen years after i went up again to jerusalem with barnabas, and took titus with me also.

Sea Breeze

The source of the ministry of reconciliation which you presented is only coming from one source,

DJW,

The scripture showing your view to be in error was already provided in the OP.

6

Why Did the Apostles Preach the Ministry of Reconciliation Instead of Mt. 24: 14 ...Like JW's Do?

by Sea Breeze in

and all things are of god, who hath reconciled us to himself by jesus christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 to wit, that god was in christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

- 2 cor.

5: 18. then fourteen years after i went up again to jerusalem with barnabas, and took titus with me also.

Sea Breeze

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. - 2 Cor. 5: 18

Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. 3But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: 4And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 5To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. 6But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: 7But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. 10Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do. - Gal. 2

Q: Since the ministry of reconciliation is what the apostles preached, why don't JW's preach the same? Why the singular message on God's Kingdom and virtually noting about reconciling with God?

26

ARMAGEDDON

by Lost in the fog in

can i ask please especially for all who are pomo?.

we've taken a decision similar to revelation 18:4 to get out of the watchtower and not share in its sins.. how many of you still believe that god will one day terminate the world's many systems by means of an armageddon?.

Sea Breeze

How many of you still believe that God will one day terminate the world's many systems by means of an Armageddon?

Isn't that were Jesus shows up as Savior and saves what is left of the world after the Anti-Christs' reign of terror?

18 years out, the WT view seems so silly to me. In the dominant evangelical view, Christians won't be here on earth for this event, (having already been raptured), but rather they will be with Jesus upon his return to save the world. "unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved."

2

PARADISE or Realm of the DEAD?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/enrefpqcgry.

my latest video on paradise how jesus' view of paradise has nothing to do with the watchtower's "panda bear" new system!.

Sea Breeze

Good video. Great subject matter.

Sea Breeze

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